By: A. H. (nova24tv.si)
As the 80th anniversary of the end of World War II approaches, historian Jože Dežman discussed topics such as post-war killings, mythmaking, suppression of truth, reconciliation, and current politics with Janez Janša and Lojze Peterle.
“The fear was enormous, not just after the trial against the four. When I was released from military detention in 1988, I learned what had happened to my parents and extended family, and at that time, people also began to speak more openly about these things,” Janez Janša shared his memories at the start of the programme.
Historian Jože Dežman began the conversation with a respectful remembrance of all the dead who suffered during the occupation, resistance, revolution, counter-revolution, and civil war. He started by recalling the documentary 3450 – Fratricide in the Cave under Macesnova Gorica, which tells the story of a war crime, its concealment, and its uncovering. The film is part of a project along with an exhibition and the 6th report of the Government Commission of the Republic of Slovenia for Resolving Issues of Concealed Graves, which was included in the programme of the Museum of Recent and Contemporary History of Slovenia and later banned and censored. Dežman believes that if there had not been a democratic and independent Slovenia, there would have been no investigations into Huda Jama, nor would we be sitting here, nor would there be democratisation in Slovenia. Over 40 years ago, this process was based on confronting taboo topics and mythmaking with lies.
“The silenced was entering the public space, while the regime threatened, persecuted, and prepared prosecutions,” said Dežman, citing Miklavž Komelj’s claim that people had “talked about all of this normally” since the 1980s, which Dežman contests. “This lie should of course be confronted with the fate of Ivo Žajdela, for whom an indictment was prepared and who would have been imprisoned had the regime not collapsed.” Dežman highlights Janša’s story as archetypal, which Janša elaborated on further in the conversation.
There has not been enough democratisation to achieve reconciliation and bury the dead
“Thank you for the opportunity to talk about these things. You said that if there had been democratisation, but not freedom, none of this would be discussed. Even without independence, we likely would not be discussing this, in terms of freedom and democratisation, there has not been enough to put these matters behind us, achieve reconciliation, bury the dead with dignity, and focus on the future. No, 30 years after independence, we are still dealing with this, meaning that we are not truly liberated yet. Regarding those times when everything was supposedly openly discussed… I come from a family deeply marked by the revolution. Well, let me say… my parents did not dare talk about it in front of us. Not just when we were children, but even after we were in high school and college,” Janša explained.
“The fear was enormous, not just after the trial against the four. When I was released from military detention in 1988, I learned what had happened to my parents and extended family, and at that time, people also began to speak a little more openly about these things in public,” he continued.
Janša does not recall any official historiography covering these issues at that time, but he mentioned that he recently came across a book by the partisan Karel Leskovšek from Rovte, titled Križpot. In the book, Leskovšek described “how they went from house to house killing people.” It is all described firsthand, yet it is not part of the official historiography, explains Janša, adding that these books were later removed from libraries after someone read them carefully.
Official historiography still does not tell the truth today
“Official historiography still does not write the truth today or tries to justify the crime, in line with the statements of some members of the Svoboda party in the National Assembly, who say fascism, the criminal regime of Nazism or, alternatively, socialism, the criminal regime, but not communism, because it was supposedly a noble idea. This, of course, means that if you simply invent some idea, you can kill anyone, and it is not a crime,” Janša explained.
Dežman went on to say that a new study revealed 100 new locations, and checks at 20 of these sites showed that they contain over 1,000 cubic meters of waste, proving that these locations are not as unknown as some claim.
The regime of Milan Kučan and his associates persistently spread propaganda before its downfall, claiming that the democratic opposition of Slovenia was planning purges and revenge. Jože Pučnik was also subjected to slander, yet he wrote from prison that neither he nor Demos desired revenge; however, Demos did have a programme that demanded truth and transitional justice for the victims of communism. Within the Demos team, Peterle was responsible for preparing the programme’s text on the topic of reconciliation. He recalls the discussions and the conclusions that defended the right to a name, the right to a grave, and the right to correct injustices. Reflecting on this, he feels sadness that it has taken so long to address something that, due to the regime, was not allowed to exist for a time.
If it were not for independence, we would not know that we were the “cemetery of Europe”
“First, they spoke about mistakes; only now are we talking about crimes. I remember when the first reports came out; we heard them quietly in high school, that people were going to Rog to light candles, but it was done secretly. It was practically illegal, and the police were patrolling the area,” said Lojze Peterle, who shared another story from that time. Peterle agrees that without the process of independence and democratisation, we still would not know that we were the “cemetery of Europe.” He emphasises that the fact that new mass graves are continually being discovered is catastrophic.
“On the 27th, the Liberation Front (OF) was not established, but for decades we had to celebrate it as a fact … we really have problems with the truth. Where there is no memory, there can be no truth either, and this is a unique Slovenian disturbance that I do not see elsewhere in the former communist world, or at least not to this extent. We have issues with piety, with culture, with morality, even with politics. Look, the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe adopted recommendations long ago on how to deal with the dismantling of communism or the remnants of communism. But it is as if this passed by Slovenia,” said Peterle, recalling stories from the past.
Janša and Pahor set the standard
Dežman went on to emphasise that the “memory battles” were mainly fought during Janez Janša’s government, with many initiatives also realised by Borut Pahor. According to him, together they set a “standard of consensus, and Borut Pahor said that strengthening mutual respect and trust, as well as everything that unites us, is the fundamental strength of the nation and state. Reconciliation is not an event; it is a state of mind. You [Janša] spoke of the right to resist all forms of evil and of the miracle that Slovenia became a republic with minimal bloodshed, and for that reason, we have the right to bury everyone in marked graves without distinction, to return among civilised nations, to accept all the dead into our community, to become whole. With this government, it is no longer possible to discuss these matters,” emphasised Dežman.
“This current ruling establishment is somewhere beyond civilisation – but that does not mean this stance will prevail,” commented Janša, who believes that the previously cited words should serve as a “democratic norm.” He credits the Commission for the Resolution of Hidden Graves for its significant contributions to preserving memory: “We are not yet at the end of the tunnel; the remains of victims still lie in many places, either not yet buried or stored in crates at the Kočevje municipal works. We have a mayor of Ljubljana who does not even allow the burial of Roma children and pregnant women who were killed by partisans, but despite this, is it not clear that this battle is lost for them?”
Janša: This is something that cannot be buried again under a layer of silence
“Slovenia’s independence, the fact that these issues started to be discussed, and that these hidden graves or massacre sites were uncovered – look, this is something that cannot be buried again under a layer of silence. Here, memory has triumphed over oblivion. You may have an entrenched authority that abolishes the Day of Remembrance for the Victims of Communist Violence, the Museum of Slovenian Independence, and so on – but this is something that will pass, that will not last, because a lie, after sunset, struggles to survive. It may use enormous energy to survive, but sooner or later, it pays the price for it. However, that does not mean the victory of truth is here yet. A basic rule of history, as we know it, teaches us that unpunished evil always returns,” said Janša, who pointed to the war in Ukraine as an example.
You can watch the full discussion on what we, as a nation, can do for reconciliation and whether it is even possible, in the show linked below.