By Imre Csekő
The goal of today’s LGBT ideology is to liquidate the heterosexual norm
Raising children’s awareness of sexuality is a real cause for concern – Patrick Deneen told the Hungarian conservative daily Magyar Nemzet, for whom the liberal elite at the top of the institutions that rule the Western world, all those who cling to traditions, treated as enemies. The professor at the University of Notre Dame (Indiana, USA), who came to Hungary at the invitation of the Mathias Corvinus Collegium, makes it clear that conservatives need courage, wisdom and prudence and must make the common good the yardstick.
– In one of your articles you write that liberalism is unsustainable. What is the basis for this judgment?– Liberalism is able to thrive if it is not chemically pure, but is mixed with non-liberal elements. For in reality, the traditions on which liberalism is built include the family, close communities, religion, and the nation. These are the prerequisites for liberalism and the real sources of human coexistence. Liberalism weakens all of these sources as institutions that limit our freedom. So what makes liberalism unsustainable is that it cuts off its own roots, which it would need in order to perpetuate itself.
– Liberalism is capable of thriving if it is not chemically pure, but mixed with non-liberal elements. In reality, the traditions on which liberalism is built include the family, close communities, religion and the nation. These are the prerequisites of liberalism and the real sources of human coexistence. Liberalism weakens all these sources, as institutions that restrict our freedom. So what doesn’t make liberalism sustainable is that it cuts off its own roots, which it would need to immortalize itself.
– Given the ongoing unrest in America, can we say that we are living in the moment when liberalism shows that it is unsustainable?– Yes. But that has already been indicated with the election of Donald Trump, Brexit and the rise of populism across Europe. That is also what we see in the case of the EU backlash against Hungary and Poland. There is a very strong sense of mission in liberal ideology, a desire to reorganize society solely around the idea that our traditions are random signs that social evolution must overcome. The division we are witnessing is due to the fact that the liberal elite at the top of the institutions that rule the Western world treat those who cling to the traditions as enemies.
– Yes. But that has already been hinted at with the election of Donald Trump, Brexit and the rise of populism across Europe. This is also what we see in the case of the EU’s backlash against Hungary and Poland. In liberal ideology, there is a very strong sense of mission, a desire to reorganize society exclusively around the idea that our traditions are random signs that social evolution must overcome. The division we are witnessing is due to the fact that the liberal elite at the head of the institutions that govern the Western world treats as enemies all those who cling to traditions.
– How do you think the state of American democracy is today?– It is not in good shape because it is difficult to see how to bridge the above-mentioned social abyss. For politics to work, there must not be a division of such magnitude that it is beyond the reach of a possible compromise among people of goodwill – among those who recognize that their opponents are not enemies but dissimilar citizens. In America today, both sides see the other side as the enemy. Since the January 6th events on Capitol Hill, state security agencies have been investigating individual citizens for their political views. As far as I can remember, this has never happened in my life. It is a phenomenon that is reminiscent of the Soviet Union. Some citizens are considered terrorists because of their political views, viewed as the enemy within. The mood in my country is really bad today and unfortunately I don’t see any readiness to put an end to it. Joe Biden may talk about uniting the country, but his administration does not reflect such an intention.
– It is not in good condition, because it is difficult to see how the social abyss mentioned above can be bridged. For politics to work, there must be no division of such magnitude that it is beyond the reach of a possible compromise among people of good will – among those who recognize that their opponents are not enemies, but dissenting fellow citizens. In today’s America, both sides see the other side as the enemy. Since the Events of January 6 on Capitol Hill, state security agencies have been investigating individual citizens for their political views. In my life, as far as I can remember, this has never happened. It is a phenomenon reminiscent of the Soviet Union. Some citizens are seen as terrorists, as the internal enemy, because of their political views. There is a really bad mood in my country today and unfortunately I see no willingness to put an end to it. Joe Biden may talk about uniting the country, but his administration does not reflect such intent.
– Donald Trump has been banned from multiple social networks for claiming election fraud and refusing to admit defeat. Do you think it is conceivable that the election was fraught with irregularities?– What I can say with certainty is that those who run the institutions whose job it is to investigate possible electoral fraud have shown an extraordinary disinterest in these last presidential elections. I don’t know if there was a scam or not, but what is certain is that the press and various regulators have done practically nothing to check it out because it was not in their best interest as their support for Joe’s candidacy Biden was obvious. It should also be noted that the same people who condemn the questioning of the fairness of the 2020 elections are the same who relentlessly claimed in 2016 that the elections were rigged by Russian interference. At the time, parliamentary inquiries were launched in Congress, calls for intervention by the secret services were made, and considerable – if ultimately unsuccessful – efforts were made to prove the irregularity of the election. I mention all of this to show how the parties are currently facing each other as enemies, have become incapable of compromise and have a strong tendency to question the legitimacy of any victory by the opposing camp. So it is a systemic problem that affects both major parties. to show how the parties are currently facing each other as enemies, have become incapable of compromise and have a strong tendency to question the legitimacy of any victory by the opposing camp. So it is a systemic problem that affects both major parties. to show how the parties are currently facing each other as enemies, have become incapable of compromise and have a strong tendency to question the legitimacy of any victory by the opposing camp. So it is a systemic problem that affects both major parties.
– What I can say with certainty is that those who run the institutions whose job it would be to investigate possible electoral fraud have shown an extraordinary lack of interest in these last presidential elections. I can’t know if there was a scam or not, but what is certain is that the press and the various control bodies did virtually nothing to verify this because it was not in their interest, as their support for Joe Biden’s candidacy was obvious. It should also be noted that the same people who condemn the questioning of the fairness of the 2020 elections are the same people who relentlessly claimed in 2016 that the elections were rigged by Russian interference. At that time, parliamentary investigations were launched in Congress, there were calls for intelligence intervention, and considerable – albeit ultimately futile – efforts were made to prove the irregularity of the election. I mention all this to show how the parties are facing each other as enemies at the moment, have become incapable of compromise and have a strong tend to question the legitimacy of any victory of the opposing camp. So this is a systemic problem that affects both major parties.
– It seems that we in Hungary are decades behind America in terms of social progress because of the communist bracket. Can we imagine that, thanks to that, it would now be our turn? That maybe we can teach you something now?– It may be that a disease is already gnawing at our body and destroying our health, but the doctor has not yet been able to diagnose it. Perhaps it was in 2016 – at a time when the disease was already at an advanced stage – that it became clear that our society had changed radically. To find a time when social thinking in our country was on the same level as it is in Hungary today, we have to go way back, maybe to the 1950s. At that time there was still a clear majority of citizens who had a positive attitude towards the nation, the traditional family or even religion. Today we look back on that time as a golden age. The working class was very strong Full employment was virtually guaranteed, and the welfare state had created a safety net around workers like they had never known before. If we look at Hungary today, we see that these elements are the conditions for restoring national cohesion. Today we are more likely to have a deepening social divide separating the winners and losers of globalization, and the wounds are getting bigger. I hope that the Eastern European societies don’t have to go through any of this. that these elements are the conditions for restoring national cohesion. Today we are more likely to have a deepening social divide separating the winners and losers of globalization, and the wounds are getting bigger. I hope that the Eastern European societies don’t have to go through any of this. that these elements are the conditions for restoring national cohesion. Today we are more likely to have a deepening social divide separating the winners and losers of globalization, and the wounds are getting bigger. I hope that the Eastern European societies don’t have to go through any of this.
– It may be that a disease is already gnawing at our body and destroying our health, but the doctor has not yet been able to diagnose it. Perhaps it was in 2016 – at a time when the disease was already at an advanced stage – that it became clear that our society had changed radically. To find a time when social thinking in our country was at the same level as it is today in Hungary, we have to go back a long way, perhaps to the 1950s. At that time, there was still a clear majority of citizens who were positive about the nation, the traditional family or even religion. Today we look back on this time as a golden age. The working class was very strong, full employment was virtually guaranteed, and the welfare state had created a safety net around the workers the likes of which they had never known before. If we look at Hungary today, we see that these elements are the conditions for restoring national cohesion. Today, we are more likely to have a deepening social divide that separates the winners and losers of globalization, and the wounds are getting bigger and bigger. I hope that Eastern European societies will not have to go through all this.
– How would you describe the phenomenon known in the West as “cancel culture”?
– It is very similar to what we saw earlier in the Soviet Union, except that people are not yet imprisoned for their opinions. But note that for my part, I am very concerned that this will happen. Those who run the institutions that govern social life – and represent economic, cultural and political power – find the slightest deviation from liberal ideology intolerable. If, for example, someone dares to criticize the sexual revolution and agree with the idea – until recently considered respectable and shared by a large majority – that the traditional family should be the social norm, the self-proclaimed guardians of the social order attack this offender on social networks. In the labor market, however, this phenomenon already has an institutional translation.
– The so-called “critical race theory” is on the rise: what do you think?– Until recently, everyone in America agreed with the traditional American idea that God made us all equal, as our Declaration of Independence says. Therefore, creating conditions for fair competition, without discrimination based on race or gender, should lead to a more equitable society. It is this tradition that has degenerated into critical racial theory that has many Marxist elements in that it divides society into oppressors and oppressed on the basis of certain distinguishing features. In the past, this antagonism was created on the basis of class contrasts – today it is skin color that is used as a criterion. If you have white skin then you belong to the class of evil; if not, then to the virtuous class. Since people are judged solely on external characteristics, many have rightly asked themselves whether this is actually a racist theory that labels part of the population as inherently evil and gives its followers the task of reshaping society in such a way that that it is ruled by the group portrayed as virtuous and that it is able to re-educate those portrayed as evil.
Until recently, everyone in America agreed with the traditional American idea that God created us all equal, as our Declaration of Independence says. Therefore, creating conditions for fair competition, without discrimination on the basis of race or sex, should lead to a fairer society. It is this tradition, which has degenerated into critical racial theory, which has many Marxist elements, insofar as it divides society into oppressors and oppressed on the basis of certain distinguishing features. In the past, this antagonism was created on the basis of class antagonisms – today it is skin color that is used as a criterion. If you have white skin, then you belong to the class of evil ones; if not, then to the class of the virtuous. Since people are judged solely by external characteristics,
– Since this is a racist theory, wouldn’t a parallel to National Socialism be just as possible?– In the critical theory of race we find the categories of pure and impure. It is a Manichean approach that the world must be cleansed of its impure elements in order to achieve the paradisiacal state. This is the common basis of all sinister and inhuman ideologies. In the past, Christianity has prevented politicians from believing that they are above the consequences of original sin by claiming that we are all sinners, regardless of skin color or social class, and doomed to beg for salvation. It is therefore not surprising that this new ideology is on the rise today, in our post-Christian age.
– In the critical theory of race we find the categories of pure and impure. It is a Manichaean approach according to which the world must be cleansed of its impure elements in order to reach the paradisiacal state. This is the common ground of all sinister and inhuman ideologies. In the past, by claiming that we are all sinners, regardless of skin color and social class, and are condemned to beg for salvation, Christianity has prevented politicians from believing themselves above the consequences of original sin. It is therefore not surprising that this new ideology is on the rise today, in our post-Christian age.
– In Hungary these days the question of sex education for children has become a very heated political debate. Do you think raising children’s awareness is a real threat?– Unfortunately, the concern is justified. In America, the sexual revolution has mixed up with racial issues. The gay movement gained influence by piggybacking the civil rights movement. But I think there is a huge difference between not judging a person by their skin color and taking an ideological approach to sexuality and everything that comes with it. They are two very different things. The moment people started seeing the LGBT phenomenon in relation to the racial issue, we lost the battle. I think that some of our most basic realities have a legitimate place in the political order, while other aspects of our identity do not need state recognition and promotion. It is very worrying that this issue has turned into an international ideological crusade sweeping the western world. The Pride flag has become a symbol of purity and virtue. It’s no longer about tolerance, but about acceptance and even recognition – terms that mean much more than tolerance (which I also support), the principle of which is that people should be able to live their lives the way they want, free from persecution . Today, however, it is about the abolition of the heterosexual norm – something that poses a threat to civilization and is therefore unacceptable. The Pride flag has become a symbol of purity and virtue. It’s no longer about tolerance, but about acceptance and even recognition – terms that mean much more than tolerance (which I also support), the principle of which is that people should be able to live their lives the way they want, free from persecution . Today, however, it is about the abolition of the heterosexual norm – something that poses a threat to civilization and is therefore unacceptable. The Pride flag has become a symbol of purity and virtue. It’s no longer about tolerance, but about acceptance and even recognition – terms that mean much more than tolerance (which I also support), the principle of which is that people should be able to live their lives the way they want, free from persecution . Today, however, it is about the abolition of the heterosexual norm – something that poses a threat to civilization and is therefore unacceptable.
– Unfortunately, the concern is justified. In America, the sexual revolution has mixed with racial issues. The gay rights movement gained influence by piggybacking the civil rights movement. But I think there’s a big difference between not assessing a person by their skin color and an ideologically based approach to sexuality and everything that comes with it. These are two very different things. The moment people began to see the LGBT phenomenon in terms of the racial issue, we lost the battle. I think that some of our most basic realities have a legitimate place in the political order, while other aspects of our identity do not require recognition and promotion by the state. It is very worrying that this issue has developed into an international ideological crusade sweeping across the Western world. The Pride flag has become a symbol of purity and virtue. It is no longer about tolerance, but about acceptance and even recognition – terms that mean much more than tolerance (which I also support), the principle of which is that people should be able to live their lives the way they want, free from persecution . Today, however, it is about the abolition of the heterosexual norm – something that poses a threat to civilization and is therefore unacceptable.
– In the West it seems that the Conservatives have been on the retreat for decades. What could be the alternative to this ever more complete surrender?Part of the problem is the way conservatives define themselves, inasmuch as they have traditionally set themselves the goal of blocking the liberal changes that took place in their day. That is what the word “conservative” itself suggests: that one is trying to preserve something that one may not even be sure that one can precisely define it. Maybe we need a better understanding of the public interest. This could be called “common good conservatism” to make it clearer what it is that we are trying to protect. But today we are so far from a true conservative simply looking like a revolutionary trying to subvert the existing system. We have to settle with this, that the calm and reserved approach to the problem, alien to radical change, is certainly an expression of the virtue instinct, but it only works in a healthy society, a society in which there are virtues worth preserving. The term “conservatism” is therefore misleading today insofar as our goal now should rather be a radical transformation of Western societies.
Part of the problem is the way conservatives define themselves, insofar as they have traditionally set themselves the goal of blocking the liberal changes that took place in their time. This is what the word “conservative” itself suggests: that you are looking to preserve something that you may not even be sure you can define exactly. Perhaps we need a better understanding of the public interest. One could call this “common good conservatism” to make it clearer what it is that we are trying to protect. But today we are so far from it that a true conservative would simply look like a revolutionary trying to subvert the existing system. We have to come to terms with the fact that the calm and reserved approach to the problem, which declares itself alien to radical change, is certainly an expression of the virtue instinct, but it only works in a healthy society, a society that possesses virtues worth preserving. The term “conservatism” is therefore misleading today in that our goal now should rather be a radical transformation of Western societies.
– So courage should be the cardinal virtue of today’s conservatives? – Certainly the fear of being silenced is present in the minds of the western conservatives, and rightly so, because sometimes you really lose your job and your livelihood. But in addition to courage, we also need a better understanding of the situation we are in. What we need is a combination of the virtues of courage, wisdom and prudence in order to understand when and how to act.
Certainly, the fear of being silenced is present in the minds of Western conservatives, and rightly so, because sometimes you really lose your job and your livelihood. But in addition to courage, we also need a better understanding of the situation in which we find ourselves. What we need is a combination of the virtues of courage, wisdom and prudence to understand when and how to act.
Source: Magyar Nemzet