By: Dr Metod Berlec
Before the European Day of Remembrance for the Victims of All Totalitarian Regimes, we spoke with an expert on this historical issue – historian Dr Tamara Griesser Pečar. She is the author of the historical bestseller A Divided Nation.
Dr Tamara Griesser Pečar was born on March 18, 1947, in Ljubljana. She attended school in Ljubljana, Portorož, Koper, New York, and Vienna. After finishing high school at the American International School in Vienna, she first studied at the American College in Paris and then studied history and English in Vienna. In 1973, she earned her doctorate under Prof. Dr Richard Plaschka with a dissertation on The Position of the Slovenian Provincial Government towards Carinthia 1918−1920. After completing her studies, she married journalist Dr Hermann Griesser, with whom she has two sons. She lives in Vienna. She is the author of numerous articles and monographs. In March 2004, Pope John Paul II awarded her the decoration Pro Ecclesia et Pontifice. For her monograph A Divided Nation: Slovenia 1941−1945, which was first published in German, she received the Anton Gindely Award in Vienna in 2005, granted by the Institute for the Danube Region and Central Europe. She has participated in several international projects. In 2007, she was habilitated as an assistant professor at the University of Maribor, where she taught modern Slovenian history until last year. She also lectured at the Faculty of Applied Social Studies in Nova Gorica. At the Study Centre for National Reconciliation, she successfully led the research programme Violence of Communist Totalitarianism in Slovenia 1941−1990 from 2009 to 2016. From 2017 to the end of 2021, she led a programme group that conducted the research programme Historical and Legal Aspects of Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms Violations in Slovenian Territory in the 20th Century, co-financed by the Public Agency for Research of the Republic of Slovenia. She is a member of the council of the public institution Study Centre for National Reconciliation and the Assembly for the Republic.
Ms. Griesser Pečar, last year we talked about the abolition of the National Day of Remembrance for the Victims of Communist Violence, the abolition of the Government Office for Demography of the Republic of Slovenia, the abolition of the Museum of Slovenian Independence, your research work, and your statement titled Statement on the Urgent Need for Reflection—Why We Need a Day of Remembrance for the Victims of Communist Violence, which you and a group of historians sent to Slovenian media at the beginning of last June. What were the reactions of the (professional) public to this statement?
The communist regime caused tens of thousands of victims and suffering for a large part of the population. This is not just about those who were murdered and remained unmentioned for decades but also about those who were sentenced in show trials, ended up in concentration, penal, and labour camps, were exiled, were forcibly dispossessed, and otherwise faced difficulties and were marginalised because they were considered opponents of the communist regime. The number of victims of communist violence exceeds 100,000. We need to remember them if we want to achieve national reconciliation and peace.
There were not many responses in the media to our statement, and the historical profession is as divided as politics. Some still stubbornly hold onto a barely modified version of the regime’s historiography. However, historian Dr Mitja Ferenc, who is also the first signatory of our statement, submitted a petition on preserving the memory of the victims of the post-war communist period in Slovenia to the European Parliament (EP). Upon the initiative of MEP Romana Tomc, it was accepted by the EP’s Committee on Petitions. The reaction in Brussels was quite significant. Additionally, Dr Jože Dežman was able to present the exhibition Under Macesnova Gorica, where the remains of at least 3,450 people murdered during the war were excavated. These remains have not been given a grave so far because the burial in Ljubljana is being blocked by the city’s mayor, Zoran Janković.
What about the government or the ruling coalition?
We only received a message from the government that the statement was handed over to the Ministry of Culture for further resolution on June 6th, 2023. As we expected, there was no response from them, and instead, there was a proposal to abolish the Day of Remembrance and the Museum of Independence. At the beginning of July, the parliamentary groups of the Gibanje Svoboda, the Social Democrats (SD), and the Levica submitted a proposal to amend the Public Order Act to the parliamentary procedure. The amendment proposes that the Public Order Act be supplemented with an article that will prohibit the glorification of Nazism and fascism as violent ideologies. According to the proposed amendment, this would be treated as an offense punishable by a fine ranging from 1,000 to 2,500 euros.
Are you surprised that they are not proposing a ban on the glorification of communism?
This does not surprise me at all. Members of left-wing parties in the National Assembly have repeatedly prevented the adoption of a resolution on European conscience and totalitarianism because condemning communism caused them difficulties. It is not primarily about preventing Nazism and fascism, as there are, with rare exceptions, no supporters of these ideologies in Slovenia. The amendment to the law aims to protect the violations of human rights and freedoms caused by the communist regime. Nor is it about protecting the values of democracy, as was said at the press conference.
On the contrary – they want to silence freedom of speech, which is a fundamental human right. I would not be surprised if it turns out that the intention is also to limit objective historiography since the law would also prohibit symbols of the Home Guard and the Chetniks, or the Yugoslav Army in the Homeland (JVVD). In this context, the JVVD, the army of the royal government in London, was founded by a group of active officers and non-commissioned officers to fight against the occupiers, and its commander, Draža Mihailović, was the Minister of War of the royal government.
What about the Home Guard symbols?
The Slovenian Home Guard is one of the most complicated and, in some ways, tragic chapters in Slovenian history. A simplistic black-and-white portrayal cannot represent it fairly. It is interesting that Martin Premk, the main initiator of the amendment, emphasises that the Home Guard were part of the SS organisation. While they were indeed subordinate to the Higher SS and Police Leader General Erwin Rösener, they were actually, as German archival documents show, an auxiliary police unit. When the Germans occupied the Province of Ljubljana after the Italian capitulation in 1943, the military conscription law also came into force there. Boys and men could voluntarily choose whether to join the Slovenian Home Guard, the SS, the German army, the Todt Organisation, etc. The traditionalist side also organised illegal legions and intelligence services. There was even an illegal Home Guard intelligence service within the Slovenian Home Guard that had connections with the British intelligence service. At the end of 1944 and January 1945, the Germans imprisoned numerous representatives of these organisations due to their illegal work against the occupier, including Home Guard officers, and sent them to Dachau in March. Some of these were later sentenced to death during the Christmas trial in Ljubljana in 1945.
What do you think is the real purpose of this amendment?
The purpose of this amendment is to prevent any criticism and to hinder independent research and historiography. With this amendment, we are returning to times we thought were behind us. The purges that were staged, and that continue, certainly resemble those of 1945. It can be said that the “verbal offense”, defined in the second paragraph of Article 133 of the Penal Code of the Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia, is returning. Additionally, they want to divert people’s attention to other topics because Slovenia has regressed in almost every area over the two years of the current coalition’s governance: in the rule of law, freedom of speech and the press, the economy, healthcare, education, etc.
One of the proponents of this amendment, Martin Premk of the Gibanje Svoboda party, justifies it by saying that, in early June, “neo-Nazis paraded through Ljubljana, intimidating and threatening people, and that in Europe, followers and sympathisers of violent ideologies threaten, intimidate, and even attack their political opponents”. I recall mainly the rampages of extreme leftists in the Slovenian capital under the previous Janša government.
Of course, all violence should be punished, regardless of the perpetrator. This was not done when leftists were rioting, inciting violence, and even issuing death threats. Elsewhere, during the COVID-19 pandemic, the police acted much more harshly than in Slovenia – just look at what happened in France at the time. The coalition overturned relatively mild penalties for severe violence unlawfully, stripping the police of all credibility, and now it talks about how violence and hatred must be nipped in the bud. In reality, they are constantly stoking hatred themselves.
How do you comment on the fact that leftists so readily label everyone they disagree with, who have different opinions than theirs, as “fascists,” “Nazis,” “neo-Nazis”…?
Anyone who holds a different opinion than the leftists is quickly labelled a fascist. They are incapable of engaging in discussions with those who think differently. This is also very evident in the National Assembly, where the opposition is obstructed in carrying out its main role of overseeing the government and administration.
Premk also says that there were no laws in Slovenia explicitly prohibiting the glorification of Nazism and fascism, but that this is regulated in most democratic countries. Is this really the case?
The Constitutional Court recently determined that the legislation appropriately addresses the punishment of the use of the Nazi salute and Nazi symbols in Slovenia, as Article 297 states that public incitement or stirring of hatred, violence, or intolerance is prohibited, as it could endanger public order and peace. If that is the case, this article should also apply to the punishment of the use of communist symbols.
In some countries, Nazism and fascism are banned by law. These laws generally prohibit the dissemination of Nazi or fascist ideology, the display of Nazi symbols, as well as the denial of the Holocaust and similar activities. Such countries include Germany, Austria, Italy, France, Poland, the Czech Republic, Slovakia, and Hungary. The Baltic States have laws that restrict the glorification of totalitarian ideologies and the use of related symbols, with Lithuania having the strictest regulations.
Premk forgot to mention that communist symbols are also banned in several countries, particularly in former communist states. These bans target symbols like the hammer and sickle, red stars, and other symbols associated with communist movements and governments. Such bans exist in the Baltic States, Poland, Ukraine, Hungary, Georgia, Moldova, the Czech Republic, and Indonesia.
What about Austria? You live in Vienna… And in Germany?
In Austria, as well as in Germany, Nazi symbols are banned, and any activities related to them are strictly punished. In Germany, the Federal Constitutional Court banned the National Socialist Party, or the Socialist Reich Party, in 1952, and the German Communist Party in 1956.
However, after the annexation of East Germany (GDR), the communist party SED renamed itself Die Linke (The Left) and managed to gain seats in parliament, but its support is declining. Interestingly, the radical right AfD is becoming stronger there. Both Die Linke and AfD are particularly strong in the former GDR territory. I do not think this is a coincidence.
Well, the European Day of Remembrance for Victims of All Totalitarian Regimes is approaching. On April 2nd, 2009, the European Parliament adopted, with 533 votes in favour, 44 against, and 33 abstentions, the Resolution on European Conscience and Totalitarianism, calling on EU member states and other European countries to adopt a Remembrance Day for the victims of totalitarianisms. What is the significance of this resolution?
The answer to this is the “Resolution on the Importance of European Historical Memory for the Future of Europe”, adopted by the European Parliament 80 years after the start of World War II on September 19th, 2019, proposed by the Baltic States and Poles by MEPs from the European People’s Party, Social Democrats, Liberals, and European Conservatives, “because the memory of the victims of totalitarian and authoritarian regimes, as well as recognition and awareness of the common European heritage of communist, Nazi, and other dictatorial crimes, are central to the unity of Europe and its people and to strengthening Europe’s resilience to contemporary external threats.”
This resolution builds on the “Resolution on European Conscience and Totalitarianism” of April 2nd, 2009, which condemns all totalitarian and authoritarian regimes in Europe.
Why has the Slovenian transitional left avoided having this resolution confirmed in the Slovenian parliament for years?
In Slovenia, there was no real turning point between the totalitarian regime and democracy at the political level. The communist structures survived, the old networks behind the scenes still pull the strings, and they surface the moment someone threatens their privileges.
So, on August 23rd, we remember all three totalitarian dictatorships in Europe in the 20th century: fascism, Nazism, and communism. On this day in 1939, Hitler’s National Socialism and Stalin’s Communism allied…
According to political correctness, the National Socialist system is something entirely different from the communist one, so any comparison is forbidden. Communism, according to this interpretation, was the greatest enemy of fascist ideology. Under this pretence, the communists appropriated the label “anti-fascist”. Germany and the Soviet Union signed two agreements in 1939, which were extremely significant both for the start of the war and for the subsequent division of Europe after World War II: the Hitler-Stalin Pact or the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact, which were signed in Stalin’s presence on August 23rd, 1939 (actually in the early hours of the 24th) by German Foreign Minister Ribbentrop and Soviet People’s Commissar Molotov, and the Treaty of Borders and Friendship, signed on September 28th, 1939. Between these two dates was the start of World War II. Germany attacked Poland on September 1st, and the Soviet Union on September 17th. The fact is that the Soviet Union began World War II on the side of Nazi Germany and was its ally for two years until Germany attacked it on June 22nd, 1941.
How do you comment on the statements of leftists, both here and elsewhere in the world, claiming that communism cannot be lumped together with fascism and Nazism because it was more humane, fair…
This is, of course, a falsification of history. There are strong ideological and political parallels between the National Socialist, fascist, and communist systems. They come from the same roots. In all cases, we see what is characteristic of totalitarian regimes: a dominant ideology, the personal cult of a dictator, unity of branches of government, a one-party system, permanent violations of human rights and freedoms, total control of the media, art, and science, political police, concentration camps, etc. The communist system caused at least 100 million victims worldwide, mostly because it ruled for the longest time.
We are nearing the end of our conversation. You live in Vienna. How do you comment on the recent cancellations of three announced and already sold-out concerts by popular American singer Taylor Swift due to the terrorist threat at Vienna’s Ernst Happel Stadium?
Europe did not react timely and appropriately to such extremists. They did not only appear in Austria. Fortunately, this time they acted promptly and prevented a terrorist attack. The tip came from the United States. Recently, another extremist from Afghanistan threatened Austrian Chancellor Nehammer with death. He was immediately arrested. In Slovenia, a similar case did not result in such action.
How do you see Austria’s international position in these turbulent times?
Generally, Austria is considered a small but influential country with a disproportionately large presence in many areas. It enjoys an international reputation as a reliable partner in diplomacy, a center of culture and art, and a country with a high quality of life and a stable economy. Since the treaty of 1955, Austria has been officially neutral, which gives it a special role as a mediator in international conflicts. Vienna is also an important location for international organisations, including the United Nations (UN), the Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE), and the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA).
And one last question. What are you currently working on professionally? Can we expect a new book soon?
A book is about to be published that deals with the rehabilitation of those convicted in the staged post-war trials of priests and religious figures. Despite numerous acquittals, most convicted priests and religious figures have not yet been legally rehabilitated. At the initiative of the late Dr Janez Jerovšek (Dr Jerovšek, Dr Janez Juhant, and myself), based on my book The Church on the Defendant’s Bench and a petition signed by priests, monks, nuns, and experts on recent Slovenian history, we submitted requests to the General State Prosecutor’s Office to file motions with the Supreme Court of the Republic of Slovenia for the protection of legality. So far, 43 convictions have been overturned. At the request of the Order of the Knights of the Cross in Vienna, I am also preparing a book about the Nazi and communist victims of the Order in Slovenia. I have other plans as well.
The interview was originally published in the print edition of Demokracija.
